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A Lesson in Mythology
Jan. 2nd, 2014 08:46 amCassandra Clare, let's talk.
I'm trying to read your teal deer post about the inclusion of incest in your books, but I keep getting hung up on something that is very important to me: mythology. You're using the Greek myths as a support for having an incest kink, which I guess is fair, except for the fact that A) the Greek gods were, oh, gee, let me think fucking gods so incest wasn't nearly the same for them as it would be for mortals and B) myths were cautionary tales. Just because the gods did something didn't mean you should, too.
Here's the thing about the gods: they are the extremes of humanity, without the consequences. They can be vindictive and warmongering and they won't die - humanity is constantly caught up in their petty squabbles and they aren't very fond of it: look at the Trojan war! The entire reason Hera is so against Troy? Because Ganymede came from Troy. Zeus stole Ganymede because he was hot and Hera did not take well to Zeus's having sex with everything that existed (pretty much).
I'm not really sure why you felt the need to start with cannibalism and Tantalus, since that only proves my point: Tantalus is punished severely for what he did. He is forced to stand in a stream, but every time he bends to drink it recedes. There is a fruit bearing tree above him, but ever time he reaches up to get something to eat, the branches pull back. This only enforces my point: myths were cautionary tales. You don't want to do the shit that people do in myths, it's not a good idea.
As far as Oedipus goes, that has a lot to do with the dangers of prophecy: if you tell people something's going to happen, they will try to avert disaster, but in myths and stories they very often only succeed in bringing about what was foretold in the first place because they're so worried about what's going to happen they don't think about how they're going to get there.
Also fucking no, it's not fucking hubris! Oedipus has no control over fucking anything in that play, for the love of. ARGH. Okay. Oedipus's father, you can argue, is suffering from Hubris because he decides that Oedipus won't sleep with his mother because he's going to kill the sucker, but instead Oedipus gets raised by farmers and then hears about the prophecy and in order not to hurt his adopted family leaves.
BUT no one bothered to tell Oedipus that his adopted family was his adopted family, so he meets this woman, takes a liking to her, and marries her. And voila, prophecy fulfilled.
That's why I hate Freud's whole "Oedipus complex" bullshit, because Oedipus had no idea what the hell was going on. Also, the "Elektra complex" makes even less sense because Elektra never has a relationship with her father other than the normal father/daughter one. But that's another rant entirely.
How hard was it to just say "There's incest in my books because I find it interesting to explore the psychological and cultural ramifications of such a taboo subject?" I've never read your books, so I can't comment on how well you explore said psychological and cultural ramifications, but that's still a fair answer. And you don't have to piss off mythology nerds.
-Wart
I'm trying to read your teal deer post about the inclusion of incest in your books, but I keep getting hung up on something that is very important to me: mythology. You're using the Greek myths as a support for having an incest kink, which I guess is fair, except for the fact that A) the Greek gods were, oh, gee, let me think fucking gods so incest wasn't nearly the same for them as it would be for mortals and B) myths were cautionary tales. Just because the gods did something didn't mean you should, too.
Here's the thing about the gods: they are the extremes of humanity, without the consequences. They can be vindictive and warmongering and they won't die - humanity is constantly caught up in their petty squabbles and they aren't very fond of it: look at the Trojan war! The entire reason Hera is so against Troy? Because Ganymede came from Troy. Zeus stole Ganymede because he was hot and Hera did not take well to Zeus's having sex with everything that existed (pretty much).
I'm not really sure why you felt the need to start with cannibalism and Tantalus, since that only proves my point: Tantalus is punished severely for what he did. He is forced to stand in a stream, but every time he bends to drink it recedes. There is a fruit bearing tree above him, but ever time he reaches up to get something to eat, the branches pull back. This only enforces my point: myths were cautionary tales. You don't want to do the shit that people do in myths, it's not a good idea.
As far as Oedipus goes, that has a lot to do with the dangers of prophecy: if you tell people something's going to happen, they will try to avert disaster, but in myths and stories they very often only succeed in bringing about what was foretold in the first place because they're so worried about what's going to happen they don't think about how they're going to get there.
Also fucking no, it's not fucking hubris! Oedipus has no control over fucking anything in that play, for the love of. ARGH. Okay. Oedipus's father, you can argue, is suffering from Hubris because he decides that Oedipus won't sleep with his mother because he's going to kill the sucker, but instead Oedipus gets raised by farmers and then hears about the prophecy and in order not to hurt his adopted family leaves.
BUT no one bothered to tell Oedipus that his adopted family was his adopted family, so he meets this woman, takes a liking to her, and marries her. And voila, prophecy fulfilled.
That's why I hate Freud's whole "Oedipus complex" bullshit, because Oedipus had no idea what the hell was going on. Also, the "Elektra complex" makes even less sense because Elektra never has a relationship with her father other than the normal father/daughter one. But that's another rant entirely.
How hard was it to just say "There's incest in my books because I find it interesting to explore the psychological and cultural ramifications of such a taboo subject?" I've never read your books, so I can't comment on how well you explore said psychological and cultural ramifications, but that's still a fair answer. And you don't have to piss off mythology nerds.
-Wart
